muppetfandomcom-20200223-history
User talk:Aleal
John Williams III I saw that you reverted my edit on John Williams III, and saw the reason in history. I was more trying to replace the note with an eka. In fact, ekas should probably be put on all those sketches. As written it claims that that's the first episode the Q sketch appeared in. I think John-John's invovlement in the street scene could be noted elsewhere on the page. --Minor muppetz 19:18, February 26, 2010 (UTC) Worlds of Wonder Hey Kiddo. I didn't want to clog up Danny's page with more talk about it, but what press release do you have on Muppet toys for WOW? I'm just totally shocked at it (coming from someone who has the Mother Goose display for retailers and all the accessories, Mickey and Goofy and accessories, Snoopy and Woodstock, Julie (the doll that freaks me out because she can sense light changes and can be "tickled"), Laser Tag sets and more). Now I know when the company went under they cleaned out the warehouses of existing merchandise, but nowhere in any literature that I've come across have I heard about Muppet talking toys from them (except when dealers try to tell me the Ideal Big Bird is from Worlds of Wonder). I'm beyond excited about this (as you might be able to tell). -- Nate (talk) 20:43, February 24, 2010 (UTC) :Patience, grasshopper! I didn't know about it all until I saw Danny add that book with "Worlds of Wonder." I'm still info gathering, so quotes, a description of the toys as they were shown to at least one magazine in 1987, and more will be forthcoming (I'm catching up on some e-mails and other things today, but it will come!) Yeah, it's always fun and exciting when we discover untapped worlds (and if memory serves Len Levitt and possibly another Muppet puppeteer/designer or two actually worked on the Worlds of Wonder toys, plus voice overlaps with Phil Baron and Will Ryan, and there was a weird live action special with fulll body puppets, so it's pretty darn thrilling). In the meantime, though, if you have any Little Boppers pics and specifics (I had one of the Baby Kermit somewhere but not sure I still possess it, and I can't recall if there was a Piggy), feel free to go ahead and create that! I remember the toys and know some basics but I haven't really gathered any details (I'm focusing on the other stuff right now, and Little Boppers will probably be tail-end since it's a lot more straightforward and non-mysterious). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:46, February 24, 2010 (UTC) ::The great computer crash of 2009 resulted in the loss of my pics, but in my storage room in Indiana (i.e. the parent's garage/basement), I should have one of the Boppers MIB. There was a Piggy. Here is a You Tube Link to the commercial for them. -- ''Nate (talk) 21:00, February 24, 2010 (UTC) :::Hi, guys! I just wanted to mention that those books seem really rare. I was all over Worldcat, eBay, Amazon, and some used book sites last night, just to see what was out there, and I couldn't find a thing. So I hope we can find out more soon! -- Ken (talk) 05:16, February 25, 2010 (UTC) ::::Whew. That was a lot of work, and still some gaps, though it seems fairly unlikely that the toys made it out (due to Worlds of Wonder's financial difficulties combined with Black Monday). Anyway, Nate, have at Worlds of Wonder. The history is tentative so please do what you like to clarify or expand. I'll add a list of toy voice connections later, at least from Ruxpin; I don't own any of the Talking Mother Goose books to check credits. I may e-mail you to check yours for those, and see if the Charlie Brown books had names. I know the Mickey Mouse ones, no doubt due to Disney's then general policy of not crediting voices on their book and tape/record sets, were unbilled but had Will Ryan as Goofy, Pete, and others. Keep us posted on anything you see of the books, Ken, but they have isbn numbers and so on and so seem to have been published (it looks like they came out in advance) but either they were limited, later recalled, or just nobody really bothered to keep them. It's all pretty murky, but they were definitely designed exclusively for the talking toys (the tapes could still play on any cassette; I'd owned one of the Charlie Brown books and tapes years ago, which is why it seems they came out first, since they could still get some sales just as stand alone sets and advance publicity). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 19:29, February 25, 2010 (UTC) The thought of Muppet Show talking toys from W.O.W just makes my sad, sad, sad. I would have died. Even as a teenager I am not ashamed to say I wanted the Ideal Sesame Street set, and when I finally got one I would sit and listen to them with my nephew and loved it. WOW is all I have to say. Now if only we can find out what happened to the line in production. Were they released overseas? They mystery thickens. I just cannot believe that these were unknown to me. -- ''Nate (talk) 19:58, February 25, 2010 (UTC) :They definitely made it to the toy fair and folks seemed to have been impressed, then in 1987 everything went BOOM. It would be nice to think that somewhere there's a talking Baby Rowlf, perhaps squirreled away by a designer or expo person or who knows, just waiting to be discovered and loved, or at least go on the talk show circuit to tell the tragic story and plug his new tell-all, ''Unplugged. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:02, February 25, 2010 (UTC) Cheapest You commented on the Cheapest talk page earlier... If you don't mind, I'd love to have you chime in again on the basic question that I'm asking. I feel like I'm going around in circles with Brad, and what he's saying just doesn't make sense to me. -- Danny (talk) 20:19, February 23, 2010 (UTC) Blocks Hi Andrew! I've been traveling for the last week and a half and haven't been around very much, so I apologize for being a little out of touch. I wanted to ask about blocking Marsupilamifan yesterday. I guess it turns out that he was blocked back in 2008, but looking at his contributions, he's done some useful things... Yesterday, he created a page for What's Inside? (song), which we didn't have before, and he did a good job. It looks like the big problem with him is that he keeps clicking "minor edit" on everything, which is annoying -- but is it worth an infinite block? Maybe yes; I just wanted to check in about it, given that his track record isn't that negative. You also blocked Chefhannah715 yesterday, for one edit. The protracted Wikipedia-style "give people three chances" thing doesn't really work for us, what with our returning vandal problems, but in a situation like that we could leave the WP-style "thanks for your test edit, it was reverted" message after a first weird edit. I'm sorry for second-guessing you -- and I really don't intend any criticism or offense. I'm just wondering if our recent problems with returning vandals is making us all a little trigger-happy. If someone is a known and long-standing problem, then obviously we block immediately. But I also want to think about whether that's making us bite the newbies. What do you think? -- Danny (talk) 10:11, February 23, 2010 (UTC) :Well, I thought blocking someone who added something provably false wasn't biting the newbies, but if you think they're worth it, go ahead. But as for Marsupilami, who isn't a newbie, he was User:BuddyBoy600 (and a few other names which we did catch). I actually just monitored him for a week since he had matured a bit rather than blocking as soon as it was pointed out, but between continuing to add weird stuff and some odd talkpage obsessiveness, doctoring YouTube video clips (that's actually how I became aware of it, since another user took his clip as being real), and most importantly not following instructions from an admin (Enrique), it seemed worth blocking. By now "infinite" has become the default just because we deal with so many weirdos, but if you want to change it to a shorter period with e-mails, that works. It's been tricky trying to handle everything of late. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 10:28, February 23, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, it's definitely been tricky -- and now that I think about it, I don't think we actually have a standard for how we handle it. Maybe we should put together a simple guidelines page for the admins, to help us get on the same page. I have some thoughts about the Chefhannah-type cases; I'll go write them down. ::For Marsupilamifan, I'm hesitant to say one way or the other, because I haven't been around enough for the last week to know all the edits. We could ask Enrique to join us in this conversation? -- Danny (talk) 10:53, February 23, 2010 (UTC) :::Guidelines would help, definitely (since we have been swamped, there's some newer admins, it's increasingly less common for multiple admins to be on at the same time so it can often be left to just one person to fix things, and it's important to make sure we're all on the same page, moreso even than with the general Wiki issues which can be threshed out in discussion but don't impact actual editing rights). I also thought Chefhannah smelled a little like a returning IP (I know Scott can check on those things but I have no idea), but it was fairly minor (in this case, as you may have guessed, since they were provably adding nonsense even if it was small, it was a matter of blocking rather than waiting around to see what else would need to be undone), so do what you think's best on that one. :::For Marsupilamifan, Enrique should definitely weigh in. As BuddyBoy, his original block (following several issues) finally arose from his adding false entries to episode guides and for changing this page to his own fantasies as a joke. His response was "I'm sorry. But I was too crazy." Since he's returned, outside of ignoring Enrique and leaving "Ok" comments on his user page but doing the same things again, he has been much better. So there's still a trust issue, especially when he's added things that can't be verified and *sound* like they could be right, but it's not sure. But it has been over a year, and kids can mature. Checking shows that early under the Marsupilamifan account, he left you odd messages about DisneyWiki and left a "Can I be an admin" request almost as soon as he joined, but since then outside of the habits we mentioned, he's mostly been calmer (though he's uploaded some of his own YouTube videos in odd ways, it's been to talk pages and not to articles, so it's pointless but not harmful). So maybe communication with him would be worth a try if you think so (though I'd prefer you or Enrique handle it, frankly; haven't slept well and you're better experienced in that area). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:42, February 23, 2010 (UTC) ::::I'll have to go over both of his accounts before I can give input. But, a lot of the time, he seem to plague talk pages with pretty useless info, such as Talk:Dancing Cat. - Oscarfan 14:22, February 24, 2010 (UTC) Karen Prell Hey Andrew, I noticed you took out my edit of Prell being Sophie's performer. I just want to make it clear that Prell wasn't on SS just during 1980-81. However, she was credited only during those years. Yes, I know it's hard to believe, but she apparently returned briefly sometime in the '90's. Although I have no official source on this, I have two segments to prove my point... *Lost on The Range *Bowl Full of Zero (watch after the animated segment) I personally don't care whether my edit's put back in or not. I just wanted to let you know my POV. -- Jon (talk) 02:48, February 23, 2010 (UTC) :Hi! We don't use guesses, and in fact Karen Prell's own resume supports her involvement being limited to that period. So I frankly trust Prell's resume over your ear. At one point, her official website had an e-mail address but it seems to be gone. If you still have it and would care to contact her (and I think others around here may know), and in the extremely unlikely event she says yes, that's a source. Otherwise, it's a guess. In fact, it could be Stephanie D'Abruzzo (as via her demo, and others have confused her with both Fran Brill and Karen Prell, or it could be Julianne Buescher; it's definitely her as the goat, as you can tell the same voice more or less was used by her when she played Sherry Netherland), who was definitely on the show in that period. But at this point, we're all playing "Insert Female Muppeteer Here," which is exactly why we don't get into these games. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:56, February 23, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah. Actually, I think it's more likely to be Julianne. I'll admit when I first watched the Bowl Full of Zero video, I wasn't sure who was performing the goat at first. To me, it sounded similar to Karen's Great Grandmother Bunny character from Tale of the Bunny Picnic, which led me to think that was her. However, I also noticed the puppetry of the goat. I mean, it is good, but it's ever so slightly amateurish. And from what I've read here, she was new to The Muppets at the time, so (no offense to Buescher) you'd probably expect as much. ::Apologies for overlooking Buescher, and completely jumping the gun saying it was Prell. I've never realized how similar they're voices are. But it goes to show that you obviously have the better ear, and the better logic. Again, sorry for the mix-up. -- Jon (talk) 06:50, February 23, 2010 (UTC) Busy Beaver Thanks for catching that. I was just doing some reference on that and making sure it is Tony's restaurant in the movie. Did you see my question at Stan Freberg too? -- Nate (talk) 20:45, February 22, 2010 (UTC) :Scratch that, you just answered it. -- Nate (talk) 20:45, February 22, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, apparently a very early trailer had the announcer calling him "Mr. Busy," but model sheets and the animation scene breakdowns and everything just called him a beaver. At least Wikipedia actually had kind of a source, but their Disney pages can be nuts, and IMDb too. Someone awhile back managed to get in a whole bunch of fake voice credits for The Jungle Book, including characters from the Kipling stories who didn't even appear in the movie, and I've given up, after months and nearly a dozen attempts, trying to remove a false claim that Jack "Popeye" Mercer is in Pinocchio, apparently because one barker has a croaky voice so a user submitted it (and it's easier to get random guesses or personal delusion into IMDb than it is to get it out). Never mind the fact that Mercer was a Fleischer contract employee, never worked for Disney, and at the time Pinocchio was made and recorded he was in fact in Florida working on the Fleischer's Gulliver's Travels. But you know IMDb. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:57, February 22, 2010 (UTC) :::I've always wondered if the guy who did Popeye was the Rough House guy in Pinocchio! I love having you around! -- Ken (talk) 06:14, February 23, 2010 (UTC) ::::Awww, thanks. I feel loved. (Quite a few folks used vibrato "croaky" voices in the 30s, whether in radio or cartoons, and in fact Mercer wasn't even the original Popeye, though he was the best and ad-libbed much of his dialogue; the croakier William Costello originated the part and sounds closer to the Rough House barker, but it's not him either). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:17, February 23, 2010 (UTC) Fuzzyface Hey Andrew, I saw your edit on the "Good Morning Starshine" page about the linking to Fuzzyface (which by the way, I have also made a couple links as well but will fix later), which has actually brought me up to this question, do you think we should just re-direct "Fuzzyface" to Grover? Because after all, his character in the first season was never really intended to have a name, and since "Fuzzyface" is pretty much a fan-based name as far as I'm considered, it makes me wonder. Wattamack4 20:16, February 19, 2010 (UTC)Alex :Like I said, Fuzzyface is a rumor page and that's why it's there. We have it precisely to disambig. So redirecting it to Grover *or* using it as a link as if it's an actual character doesn't help. Just link to Grover, unless you're actually referring to the rumor itself (at this point, we're not clear when precisely he acquired the name Grover but it's the same character; really "early Grover" also tends to work better than proto Grover in those statements too). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:17, February 19, 2010 (UTC) ::Oh, I see. Well, I wasn't sure cause Fuzzyface pretty much seemed like a fan-based name to me (and I know we often don't use fan-based names on this site), so I was unclear if we should've just re-directed it to Grover instead. But now I see, and I guess that works too (and I actually like that statement better than "proto-Grover"). Wattamack4 20:26, February 19, 2010 (UTC)Alex :::Re-read what I said, Alex, and read the actual Fuzzyface article if you haven't. It's a rumor page, and it's designed precisely to address the origin of the term and the claims that this early "green Grover" is a different character. That's why we have the page. Redirecting Fuzzyface to Grover would not address the issue, just reinforce the assumption that "Fuzzyface" is an actual name for early Grover. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:45, February 19, 2010 (UTC) ::::Well I already knew it was a rumor page, but didn't think it would make people belive that was the official name for Grover if it were re-directed. Nevermind. Wattamack4Alex :::::Yes. That's the point of redirects, really, you're equating something or else because a page has been merged (in cases where several characters are covered on a group page, for example). The Fuzzyface page serves a purpose, but not to be linked to as a character, and outside of the confusion issue, making it a redirect to Grover erases that purpose by eliminating the text. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:24, February 19, 2010 (UTC) E-mail this user Where did "e-mail this user" go? I've been looking all over for it. -- Ken (talk) 07:55, February 18, 2010 (UTC) Never mind; it just appeared. That was weird. -- Ken (talk) 07:56, February 18, 2010 (UTC) Okay, so I'm not going crazy. I was trying to e-mail Jon through the wiki, but I couldn't figure out why I couldn't see "e-mail this user" on his page, but I saw it on yours, Wendy's and mine, and I finally realized that it won't show up on people's pages if they haven't chosen to be contacted that way. I think that means I should get off now. Happy Ash Wednesday, even though I'm Protestant! -- Ken (talk) 08:07, February 18, 2010 (UTC) Vivo? Hey, why do the Plaza Sesamo VHS tapes say "en vivo"? I thought that meant that a show was on live TV. Did they mean "live action", as opposed to animated? -- Ken (talk) 07:29, February 17, 2010 (UTC) :Yeah, that's exactly what they meant in this case, as far as I can suss out, and I think also as a way of noting that the frame scenes were new, not clips. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 08:01, February 18, 2010 (UTC) Apologies Didn't realise performing guessing was speculation. I took out the Oz reference as well cause it was pretty much another guess on who it might be. If I had some kind of program that could seperate their voices, it'd be much easier to tell. Or if any of those albums credited who's who. Wattamack4 22:41, February 14, 2010 (UTC)Alex :We include performer identifications by ear only when there's no doubt whatsoever and no disagreement, when it's quite clearly Oz or Henson or whoever. If you're arguing based on how dominant the voice is, then it's not something to include. I haven't heard the album version, but Oz is usually easier to distinguish than any guess as to Robinson or Cerf or whatever (but yeah, if they're mixed chorus voices and you can't tell, don't try to guess). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:45, February 14, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, I understand now. I may as well just bring it up on the talk page if none of the albums credit who being who. And by the way, in case you're wondering, this is what the album version sounds like. Wattamack4 22:48, February 14, 2010 (UTC)Alex :::Yeah, speculation on the talk pages (as long as it isn't merely "I think it's A or maybe B or maybe C," random name listing, which does crop up) is fine and on rare occasions even productive, but generally, when it comes to one-liners or chorus or other very minor voice roles when it's not obviously a distinctive voice we're all familiar with, it becomes a matter of guessing and a subjective issue (how it sounds to a given listener, which as in cases like Talk:Astoria, varies considerably). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:06, February 14, 2010 (UTC) ::::Yeah, I see your point. Looking at it a bit carefully, the really high-voiced Monotone might be more easy since it sounds a bit like Miss Piggy a little (but that's only my guess, however. I originally remember thinking it was Kevin Clash doing the voice), while the low,nasaly-like voice is probably a bit more un-recognizable since it's only heard once (though to me, it does sound a bit like Roosevelt, though I still originally remember thinking that was Joey Mazzarino). Whoever it was, I guess it doesn't matter for now anyway. Wattamack4 00:45, February 15, 2010 (UTC)Alex Hola! I know you're working on a bunch of stuff, but when you have a free moment, can you pull out any Plaza Sesamo DVD's that you have? Working on the transition from Genius to Warner got me to thinking about the Spanish stuff, and now I'm finding library sites that say that they were handled by Ventura and Sony, and they even show Sony numbers that fall between the US numbers, which I find interesting, since I've never seen them for sale in the US. I'm curious what the UPC and catalog numbers are, and which companies are credited on the back. No hurry, but if you ever pull them out for something you're working on, please let me know. Gracias! -- Ken (talk) 07:57, February 13, 2010 (UTC) P.S. I found some information on more Video Emocion tapes we don't have on here yet! -- Ken (talk) 01:04, February 15, 2010 (UTC) :Hi! Well, I happen to have Me Gusta Ser Yo at hand right now, which is a Ventura release. The Plaza DVDs were definitely sold here, but the border does have an advantage, and a few I'd seen on Amazon (I can't speak on some of the ones I don't own, like the Copa Sesamo DVD, which I Netflixed only). The number under the barcode is small 6, 3499128162, small 1. I have no idea what that means, and that's the only number on the package (the rest is copyright info and Ventura's address). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:30, February 15, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, the Ventura ones are laid out like most US DVD's with the number on the spine, so I was able to figure out the ones that match the one you gave me (Vamos a Cantar). But they all seem to be out of print now. Is anybody handling Plaza videos right now? According to Worldcat, some of them mention Sony, and one even says Warner Brothers Mexico, years before the US deal. The Sony Wonder ones make sense, because they were during their US deal. But it still seems like a lot less titles than we have, and I've also been wondering why the 1993 tapes haven't been reissued on DVD. On a related note, I was impressed at the number of Random House titles that were mentioned on Warner's site, which I hope means they're going to keep them in print. I'll have to spend some more time at the library to figure this all out! -- Ken (talk) 05:15, February 15, 2010 (UTC) Kit-Cat Klock How many years have I been on here and I've never noticed Kit-Cat Klock one time? I hang my head in shame. What a great little article I never would have thought of! -- Nate (talk) 17:05, February 9, 2010 (UTC) :Glad you liked it (and thanks for correcting the spelling)! It inspired me to upload a better picture I've had sitting around for a few months (in an episode in which Eliot Shag faces eviction, the surly building super taunts him with Shag's own Kit-Cat!) -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:40, February 9, 2010 (UTC) ::Well now I have something else to always keep my eye open for when watching stuff. lol -- Nate (talk) 18:49, February 9, 2010 (UTC) Le Bébête Show I stumbled across this by accident today on here. Just a little blurb on the page for Le Muppet Show. It talked about Le Bébête Show, and when I did a little wiki research I was kinda shocked. A total spoof of the Muppets. There is a fair amount of information on the web, including a wikipedia article. What are your thoughts about having some information on this somewhere on the wiki? -- Nate (talk) 22:33, February 7, 2010 (UTC) :Yeah, I'd meant to cover it in detail ages ago but then just plain forgot entirely. It's kind of the unholy love-child of The Muppet Show and Spitting Image (the fake Kermit is especially creepy). So if you feel like starting a page, go ahead (it certainly qualifies as a TV Mention), though it would take work to break down which politician became which Muppet and the rest of the details (which is probably why I'd just left it at the blurb). But if you feel up to the challenge and going through assorted French language articles (I'd be cautious with the English Wikipedia page, which didn't exist at the time; try to compare the two if you can, even if separated by Babelfish, unless you know someone who can translate), go for it! Adding info on dubs is less complicated (just requires knowing key terms like "doublage," "voix," etc.) -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:51, February 8, 2010 (UTC) ::I started an article. I figured once one is up, it encourages people to contribute. I did the best I could with the information I could drudge up. -- Nate (talk) 17:05, February 9, 2010 (UTC) Marx Brothers question Hey Andrew, did you see the question at Talk:The Marx Brothers? I thought you might weigh in on it. -- Nate (talk) 22:21, February 7, 2010 (UTC) :I'll get to it when I have a chance to dig out my VHS of Monkey Business. The visual is striking but I'd like to compare the whole scene (given things like Hungerdunger etc. though it seems pretty likely; probably Jerry Juhl's idea). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 00:45, February 8, 2010 (UTC) ::Hi! I brought up the question over on the Marx Brothers page. It's been on my mind for a while, and just finally decided to ask. In the scene, Groucho's annoucing as if for a boxing/wrestling match, I believe, rather than a baseball game as in The Great Muppet Caper. But, the scene is on YouTube here if you don't get the chance to check your VHS. ::On a side note, The Marx Brothers Silver Screen Collection is probably one of my most cherished DVDs, aside from my Muppet discs. :-P --Justin 05:18, February 8, 2010 (UTC) Bill Cosby Thanks for fixing Bill Cosby! I almost had a heart attack until I found out that it was an internet rumor that was all over Twitter in the middle of the night last night. After realizing that no legitimate websites were saying anything, I went to bed. -- Ken (talk) 02:08, February 7, 2010 (UTC) :Yeah, it smelled fishy and I googled and reverted (especially since someone had registered just to add that; I won't block unless they try it again since one can't tell if it was hoaxing or genuine confusion, but the inclusion of so many details not even in the Twitter buzzing suggests a hoaxer). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:46, February 7, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, apparently, Twitter is known for being the place where people spread celebrity death rumors. Johnny Depp has "died" before, and Bill Cosby has "died" 5 times! At one point, somebody even linked to what turned out to be a fake CNN page. I was on a rollercoaster ride for an hour and a half, waiting for something real. Finally, I figured out it wouldn't be happening! Oh, and this morning, even Bill had a comment about it on his website! -- Ken (talk) 04:51, February 7, 2010 (UTC) Talk:The Marx Brothers I know you know the answer to this one! -- Ken (talk) 06:49, February 6, 2010 (UTC) Preferences bug Hi! They figured out the problem with the preferences bug -- they'll release the fix tomorrow. :) -- Danny (talk) 20:10, February 4, 2010 (UTC) :Hooray! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:15, February 4, 2010 (UTC) ::Okay -- it's fixed, but the new code hasn't been released live to the site yet. That might not happen until Wednesday, so I turned off the new Create Page extension until then. So now you shouldn't have any skin problems, and by the time we turn CP back on, that bug will be fixed. Sorry for the inconvenience -- I'm really glad you told me about the problem. -- Danny (talk) 19:54, February 5, 2010 (UTC) :::Thanks for the update! Yeah, as of this moment, everything is back to normal for me. And I'm glad they figured it out, since this is the kind of thing that could affect a lot of users. So yay. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 19:57, February 5, 2010 (UTC) ::::Yeah, for sure! We didn't realize how big it was because it was only happening on wikis that had the new Create Page feature turned on. The skin problem doesn't seem like it has anything to do with CP, so it didn't occur to me that it was related. We only figured it out when we turned on the new CP sitewide, and suddenly we got lots of complaints about the skin. -- Danny (talk) 20:41, February 5, 2010 (UTC) Cuchi cuchi! Hi! I can't believe nobody's found this yet! I finally found a way to get Charo on the wiki! Watch this clip, especially at 4:45. I'm still watching other clips, but I think that's a start! (I still wish we could confirm if she did the Spanish versions of Jazz Numbers, though!) -- Ken (talk) 03:55, February 2, 2010 (UTC) :Hooray! I know we'd talked about it, since it seemed she *must* have worked with them some time in some context. And now we have it! Good work, Ken! I'll be glad when the Slim Pickens Hee Haw clip surfaces myself. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:36, February 2, 2010 (UTC) ::I didn't put her birth year and real name, because there's some controversy over her age, and her real name is huge, so I didn't know how you wanted to do that. Also, now that I'm thinking about it, have you ever seen any Jazz Numbers in Spanish? Does Plaza Sesamo show them? I can't believe they've never shown up on YouTube. I hope I didn't imagine them! -- Ken (talk) 05:56, February 2, 2010 (UTC) ::::Ah, I missed the age issue, so yeah, we leave it out in that case (and likewise, we don't *have* to include real names for famous people, especially if it's awkward and the connection is slim but fun, since that's easily found on other sites). And I've never seen any, but I'll let you know if I uncover anything. I know they did more than a few Spanish-only segments specifically as part of the bilingual curriculum on Sesame itself (usually paired with the English version). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:05, February 2, 2010 (UTC) :::::Yeah, I remember a lot of the speech balloon ones being shown in pairs with dubbing or different animation, and the 4-armed guru counting to 20 is all over YouTube. If any of your voicechaser friends ever run across any Sesame voice work Charo did, please tell them I'd love to know about it! -- Ken (talk) 06:33, February 2, 2010 (UTC) Sesame Street Music Magazine Have you seen this yet? Our resident Bob McGrath expert brought them in. And they came with records! -- Ken (talk) 02:54, January 31, 2010 (UTC) :Yep, I'd seen them (and added the category and did some clean-up). I'm glad to see we have details on the first issue too. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 05:40, February 2, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, Kate has everything she put up, but Danny wasn't sure if they were worth making a page for every issue, so she made one for the first issue, and he liked it. I started looking at our magazine section, and I'll have some other questions soon, but this week is nuts, between the first new WB title starting tomorrow, and Danny just told me the 3-CD set's back on! I knew the Warner deal would spark other stuff! -- Ken (talk) 05:56, February 2, 2010 (UTC) If I could walk that way, I wouldn't need the powder Hey Andrew. I thought you might have fun with this too. Walk this way is something I came up with last night. I was watching A Celebration of Me, Grover as I was drifting off to sleep, and they used the gag. I wondered how many other times it has been used in the Muppet universe, and it amused me since we don't really see the full "walk". I thought I'd start a page, and I have put it in the sandbox now for two reasons. One, I need to watch the Grover bit again because I don't remember the exact context in my drowsy state, and the other is that I was hoping folks might come up with some other gags (there is a Count von Count elevator bit, but that's the only other one I can dig up). I figured you might know of a few examples, maybe even from Dog City (since you are our resident expert on that). If we think it's a lame page, we can toss it, but I thought it would be fun in the Movie References category, and one of those wacky pages that we have fun with around here. -- Nate (talk) 21:30, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :Synchronicity! I just did a little clean-up on that myself! Mostly clarifying so it doesn't seem like Mel Brooks really is the most notable example, just the most frequent in recent decades and thus the most familiar to modern audiences (there's countless older examples, usually involving butlers, including at least one Abbott and Costello movie). One of my own personal favorites is a variant used when Jack Benny was a guest star on Lucille Ball's show. It played on the by then also well-established jokes about Jack Benny's walk (Phil Harris: "You could put a dress on that guy and take him anywhere"), so when Lucy says "Walk this way," Jack pauses, turns to the audience with one of those famous looks, and says "I always do!" -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:34, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::The connections of uses and how they tie into references by the Muppets was mind boggling when I was going through the wikipedia article. Nick and Nora Charles, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Drawn Together, the list was too fun. And it's a great old time Burlesque/Vaudeville joke, so of course I love those connections as well. I was hoping you might could come up with a couple Muppety ones. -- Nate (talk) 21:41, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :::Yeah, and the Wikipedia article barely scratches the surface (focusing more heavily on recent stuff, no doubt because that's what the casual users felt like adding). One would think they'd used it at some point with, say, Sweetums or someone like that. So I'll keep an eye out for it next time I go through The Muppet Show or any with a mansion/old dark house-type context (always a favorite setting for the bit). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:43, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::Oh, and I have the Grover DVD! So I'll get it out and add the context later (I have a non-paid writing deadline and other stuff, but probably tonight). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:45, January 28, 2010 (UTC) Sweet. I just picked that DVD up last week, and it was just a joy to watch. I am sad I hadn't gotten it before now. But it was four bucks in a discount bin, and I like to buy my DVDs cheap. lol. There were so many fun little things in the video that I sent a text to my email with a few of them to make sure they were listed on the wiki in their appropriate places. I'll move the article out of the sandbox since its a keeper. -- Nate (talk) 21:48, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :And it's already growing rapidly! I was thinking there *might* be one in one of The Tubmans of Porksmith skits, given the fact that they involved a quavering old butler, but I couldn't check them easily. I'll try to find it later to screengrab, or else get the numbers DVD with the Count skit, so we can actually have an image of the walking itself (in the Grover DVD, the movements are too fast for me to screengrab clearly). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:29, January 28, 2010 (UTC) Show tense When we make pages about shows, is it "Dragnet is a TV show", or Dragnet was a TV show"? I'm seeing it done differently. -- Ken (talk) 01:06, January 25, 2010 (UTC) :Good question. We had a discussion waaaay back as far as tense for Muppet/Henson series and concluded that we used the present ("Fraggle Rock is a TV show.") "Was" seems most appropriate for pilots that failed to sell or projects that were abandoned. I think originally, with Dragnet and other shows, the idea was to distinguish if a show is on the air or not, but that becomes moot. Looking at it, it may depend on structure. Dragnet uses is and fits the phrasing (it *is* a pioneering police procedural etc.) whereas Gunsmoke uses was, but it ends with the fact that it was one of the last radio dramas (where present tense doesn't work). So generally, is, and especially in simple statements ("Blank is a show which ran"), was only if context demands it ("Blank was the first show to feature Jim Henson's Muppets as well as juggling armadillos.") In a case like Gunsmoke, we could probably reword easily to standardize (first sentence, "Gunsmoke *is* a Western series which began on radio and went to TV. It *was* one of the last network radio dramas, ending in...") Does that make sense? -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:19, January 25, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, reading a few pages, it looked like shows that are still on the air use "is", and old TV shows use "was", but if we use "is" all the time, then whenever they get cancelled, all we have to do is update the years. I'll clean up stuff as I find it. -- Ken (talk) 02:46, January 25, 2010 (UTC) The woods, as usual Jeez louise. Did the asylum let out early today? -- Danny (talk) 06:04, January 21, 2010 (UTC) :Yeah, it broke out in a veritable rash. I've mostly been working on the wartime book proposal today (nearly done, but had to step away from it) so I'm glad you took care of some of it (especially the kid; that was a nice message, since I do kind of feel bad when it's obviously not just some nut or jerk but an over-eager kid, in actual age). I finally realized what was, sort of, up with that Zippo guy (who's done weird stuff before anyway); apparently it's because the 40 Years book quotes Fierlinger as saying "I made my first film for Sesame Street in 1971," and he assumed that somehow referred to Teeny etc. So apart from the big violation (ignoring messages and correction), he didn't know how to read/digest information properly either. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 06:12, January 21, 2010 (UTC) ::Just a question. Shouldn't we give a talk page message to the kid who's too young? I don't think she'll know to look in the Block Log for the reason. -- Ken (talk) 06:45, January 21, 2010 (UTC) :::I missed Ken's question before -- people see the reason for their block the next time they try to make an edit, so the young kid saw it. It's a shame that we had to block that kid; they really were adorable edits. -- Danny (talk) 02:29, January 25, 2010 (UTC) Birth year format Hello! Say, do you know if there are certain guidelines on birth years articles, such as what the format is? For instance, when a celebrity has a stage name, is "(b. 19XX)" placed after/before the bolded stage name (i.e. on Ice-T)? Thanks, [[User:SchfiftyThree|'Matt H.']] (talk) 21:14, January 20, 2010 (UTC) :Hi! Good question, and I may try to say more later (I'm trying to work on something else off-Wiki), but yes and no. There are certain loose guidelines but never formally ratified, so to speak. In general, the rules on celebrities is only birth and death years, not full dates (we save those for the major Muppet Wiki-relevant people instead, the puppeteers, designers, Sesame regulars, Jerry Juhl, Joan Ganz Cooney, etc.) Not all celebrity pages note their stage names (and a lot of them had them) but usually two bolded names is to be avoided (right now Frank Oz is like that, but while it can be debated, it makes more sense as an exception since he's a major topic for us and it's the leader text before several long subdivided sections). My own preference is usually to either a) work the birth name into a narrative format (like on Slim Pickens) if the article warrants it (since by now Pickens is more obscure to most Muppet Wiki visitors than Ice-T) or have it follow the main name used for the article title. Bob Hope works well, for example, while Tony Randall in my opinion should be reworked so it's clearer. There's also inconsistency, as you can see, as to how many dashes or spaces to use when separating birth and death dates, so i twould be worth bringing up at Current Events, but in general, the format currently used on Ice-T is messy and ugly (the fact that he's a rapper and the stage name is more obviously not what he was christened at birth is a minor complication, but it can and should still be reworked to avoid the double bolding). That's more than I intended to type now, actually, so I should get back to other things, but I'd say feel free to play around with what looks better on Ice-T (you might also look at Mark Twain; different since he's deceased of course and was more apt to maintain a distinction himself between his birth name and penname, but still useful) and then bring it up on Current Events (then if we can get agreement on firm guidelines, we'll add them to the Policy and Guidelines or Style Guide pages for future reference). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:40, January 20, 2010 (UTC) ::Thanks for the answer! However, I was kind of hoping for an answer about the "(b. XXXX)" being placed before or after the celebrity's real name. The Ice-T article currently reads: Tracy Marrow''' (b. 1958), better known by his stage name '''Ice-T. Would the year be placed after Tracy Marrow, or after "Ice-T"? I might have been asking for the wrong thing, but who knows? :-) Thanks, [[User:SchfiftyThree|'Matt H.']] (talk) 01:41, January 22, 2010 (UTC) :::That's why I pointed out Mark Twain. The format would work there if you reversed it: Ice-T is the stage name of rapper and actor Tracy Morrow (b. 1958), or however you want to word it. Andrew Leal (talk) 01:54, January 22, 2010 (UTC) ::::I've fixed it. Hope it looks better now! [[User:SchfiftyThree|'Matt H.']] (talk) 00:16, January 23, 2010 (UTC) ::::::It looks good! The main logic in my suggestion, by the way, and reason I approach it slightly differently than say Bob Hope (who changed his first name) is that the subject was definitely not born Ice-T. One could argue that "Ice-T" as a persona was born on such and such date, in the way "Mark Twain" didn't exist until Samuel Clemens wrote his first book under that name; that may sound picky and of course we have tons of cases of stage names, but only a few that were specifically chosen *as* stage names for such a specific purpose or sound but never intended to be confused or assumed to be the subject's birth name, compared to many who say chose something that was less "ethnic" sounding or whatever, and more often than not those names were legally changed as well (which again doesn't apply to Ice T or, say, a wrestler and so on). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 01:38, January 23, 2010 (UTC) Andrew's talk archive *Muppet Wiki Talk Archives